After about 30 visits to Azerbaijan Andreas Gross, the co-rappoteur of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) in 2001-2006 years, stopped work for the sake of democracy in this country seven years ago. Gross, who today is a member of the PACE, in a written interview with Radio ”Azadlig” told about the specifics of his work in Azerbaijan, revaluation of Ilham Aliyev, exceses of Baku in the lost war, the hope of the young democrats and so on.
With the requierment to replace Andreas Gross on the post of the co-rappoteur on Azerbaijan, the delegation of that country in the PACE appealed to the PACE President in 2002. In 2005 the Azerbaijani authorities threatened not to let him into the country. It is known, a year later none of the local politicians met with Gross and his colleague Andres Herkel during their visit to Baku. In the summer of the same year Gross left the post of the co-rapporteur.
”I could not believe that everything would turn out in such a way”, says Gross. ”But today it seems to me that the situation is even more difficult. Even less respect for human rights, for the slightest criticism of the comments of the critics are being persecuted”.
In January at the meeting of the PACE the report on the political prisoners in Azerbaijan was not adopted. You were one of the few MPs who voted for the adoptation of the report. What can you say about the progress or regress concerning the prisoners issue, voting process, freedom of assembly since you left the post of the co-rappoteur.
It means that the regime has not mastered a lot yet. The only difference is that these big disadvantages cause several times greater public response than a few years ago. Although in those years the number of the well-informed about what was happening in Azerbaijan was less.
Does the Council of Europe and international organizations possess any means of exposure over Azerbaijan to achieve the fulfilment of its obligations? Some critics condemn these structures for softer position…
There are people in these structures who are aware of the situation and try to increase the pressure. However, we are too today. Few people understand it sufficiently and fall into the trap of communication, made by the regime in many places in Europe.
When it comes to commitment, the officials on the grounds of justification mention about the violation of rights of about one million refugees and internally forced migrants and complain about the use of double standards in relation to Azerbaijan. Are you satisfied with this approach?
Not at all. Never should others’ errors be reason for conscientious people to commit mistakes. Lost war and unresolved conflict with Armenia is considered to be justification for a large mode of failure and errors of the regime. Such behaviour is a sign of a very weak democracy in Azerbaijan, and one of the obstacles for peace between Azerbaijan and Armenia. This virious circle is fraught with serious consequences for many people connected with this circle of people. It is necessary to try everything to overcome all this.
After the November 2005 election you said, ”The worst thing that could happen has already took place. With its irresponsible actions the leadership kills people’s hope for democracy. No one believes in the possibility of possitive changes in the country”. What do you think now?
At that time I was too optimistic and too pessimistic. I was too pessimistic, as I could suggest that things could even be worse. I was very pessimistic, because in such a situation I did not hope that young democrats will rise to their feet and speak so loudly then.
In the initial period, being an co-rapporteur, you have talked about commitment to democracy by Ilham Aliyev which is greater than his father’s, that individuals and forces within the government obstruct his reforms. Do you still agree with this opinion?
No. I have overestimated Ilham Aliyev. Today, I think, that even his father before his death in November 1999, that is in the short period of time I worked with him, did his best to achieve the best results. Father desired to see the political development of the country more than the son. And the son pays more attention to the lighter side of life and entrusts the case to those who care more about personal enrichment and power. It is a big disappointment for me, but 10 years ago my attitude was quite different.
What can you say about the nomination of the current president for a third term? The Venice Commision regarded the constitutional amendments as democratic regression.
I fully share the assessment of the Venice Commission. The ration of Ilham Aliyev to political power and his personal position with respect to this can be considered disgusting. I am the only one of the international observers who 10 years ago followed the referendum which is considered to be the beginning of all the changes and which opens way for the introduction of dynastic and seizure of power plan. At that time many people in the international community did not pay attention to it. Unfortunately, all my fears have come true.
A Swiss newspaper stated that according to you, parliamentary elections of 2000 were the worst among those you have observed since 1994. What is the main obstacle to free and fair elections in Azerbaijan?
There is a universal and global lesson of the last century, which you could get: It is very difficult to contruct democracy there, where before the construction of democracy rich deposits of oil are found. The age of democarcy in Norway, the USA, Canada and other countries is older than oil. As wealth, oil generates from powers, that are cynical about the basic democratic values and thus directs democracy into the difficult path of development.
Today the fundamental rights (freedom of assembly, expression, freedom of the association, free press, independent judiciary) in Azerbaijan are not respected. That is why the start and the promotion for democrats and democracy becomes more and more difficult.
Compared to the years when you were a co-rapporteur, in recent years the Council of Europe has sounded less criticism. Last year, in a report of European NGO called ”Caviar Diploamcy” it was alleged that the authorities ”silenced” the European Council with expensive gifts. Do you agree with these statements?
Not really. Caviar diploamcy is an element that has an effect on a small part of my colleagues. The important thing is the indifference of many others. The fact of their inability is to put an end to dependence on the ”oil capacity” of the economy and of the modes, the old-fashioned supplying oil resources. The cargo, which in recent years has hoisted itself on the shoulders of the Council of Europe weighs more than the organization can really carry. Azerbaijani people are one of the victims of the excessive burden and your inability to bear it.
Have you been offered gifts being an co-rapporteur?
I often received small gifts. I usually gave jars with caviar to the assistants. As a return gift, I gave my books and drawings. But these gifts which are to improve personal relationship, must never harm the political commitments and work. So should have behaved all who worked with me.